Posts by Sea Breeze

68

Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was thinking a bit about this the other day.

ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.

some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....

Sea Breeze

SBF writes:

He spent his time and energy spreading a message of peace and hope for humanity from the Bible as he understood it

That's just it, he didn't have any understanding because he had no training and just started calling himself a "Pastor" without having been given that name by anyone.

For instance:

The bible says that "money is the answer for everything" . Sound doctrine doesn't not allow for this teaching because those trained in ministry know that the book of Ecclesiastes is a philosophical book written from a carnal point of view.... the one we are not supposed to have as a total worldview. It says that it's material from a point of view "under the sun" dozens of times so that the reader won't get the wrong idea.

Yet, Russel picked out a verse in that book that says :

the dead do not know anything, nor do they have a reward any longer, for their memory is forgotten. 6 Indeed their love, their hate, and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.

This verse is talking about the carnal life of man, under the sun, in this world...ie. a man's body. Then, he takes this ignorant exegesis and forms a Christian doctrine out of it while ignoring perhaps a dozen or more NT scriptures that say the opposite. Millions of JW's still repeat this non-sense in trying to support the heretical doctrine of annihilation.

SBF - Here's a link to the second booklet (1912 publishing date). Scrolling down on each of the links gives several more works.

68

Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was thinking a bit about this the other day.

ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.

some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....

Sea Breeze

@SlimBoyFat: Read the booklets on the link provided before you criticize others. The first one was published in 1881. The others listed at the bottom of the link cover the next few decades. There were many who were keeping track of Russell's scams (like miracle wheat) during his career.

Russell sued one of the authors for libel. He tried to avoid defending himself in court. One of the booklets lists some of the questioning and testimony from Russell where he was caught in lie after lie. Many were eager for this stuff to come out in court so he could be exposed. If these transcripts are true, then he is a consummate liar; a defining characteristic of sociopaths.

Excerpt:

The High Court opened on March 1st, 1913, and the case came before the Grand Jury for considera- tion. The only evidence that was in was obtained from "Pastor" Russell himself under cross-examina- tion. After comparing the charges made in the leaf- let with the evidence thus obtained, the jury found absolutely no ground for libel and handed down the ^rdict "no bill." Thus the case was thrown out of court by the evidence furnished by "Pastor" Russell himself.

I don't think you understand the significance of this material. The booklets are nothing short of explosive IMHO.

This was not a good man. The conclusions I draw are appropriate with the material provided in that link. Read the booklets and draw your own conclusions.

68

Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was thinking a bit about this the other day.

ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.

some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....

Sea Breeze

slimboyfat :

“Sounds to me like you’ve carefully crafted your own story about Charles Russell there”

No it doesn’t. This is what his contemporaries mostly said in the link I provided.

68

Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was thinking a bit about this the other day.

ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.

some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....

Sea Breeze

I was thinking a bit about this the other day. CT Russell, from what I remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.

I know this is a common and carefully crafted view about Russell. The facts show otherwise. The book below:

https://archive.org/details/allaboutonerusse00cook

was written only 2 years after Russell started printing the WT. It was written by his peers in the New York area.

It shows that he:

1. Had zero bible training what so ever

2. Was a clothing salesman for his father

3. Assumed the title Pastor without ever having pastored anyone.

4. Fostered and promoted the idea that he himself was named in scripture as the faithful and wise servant.

5. Was a shameless self-promoter and had no problem lying on stage

6. Went on a world-tour to investigate missionaries. This was exposed as a complete fraud. He then packed out the Hippodrome in NYC and denounced all missionaries in the most negative terms.

7. Was divorced by his wife (she was known for having impeccable character & from a good family) for "inappropriate behavior".... like locking himself in the maids bedroom and not coming out for 10 minutes when his wife was knocking on the door. She accused him under oath of doing things like this to both of the women who lived in the Russell home.

8. He set up multiple corporations to try and deny her the alimony he was ordered to pay.

Russell filled a niche. He provided a religion to tickle the ears. It was religion for the hard-working albeit uneducated common man:

1. No consciousness after death. So nothing to worry about if you get it wrong in this life.

2. No judgement after you die

3. Second chance theology for almost everyone - wake up in paradise

4. You get to take credit for your hard work you do for God

I believe Russell was the ultimate narcissist sociopath who had no trouble deceiving others.... for their own good of course. Rutherford was just a little angrier.... same BS, same kind of affairs, probably with more alcohol.

ALL of the subsequent WT leaders and many of the R & F have followed in these footsteps that glorify ignorance, the uneducated and self-righteousness.

38

Did you ever meet someone born in the 1800’s?

by Fisherman in

i met freddie franz who was born in the 1880’s and many others from the 1880’s.

but as a very small child i remember someone very old aged 106 and that person was born around 1856 which means that he was around people from the 1700’s..

Sea Breeze

Ernest, Thanks for clearing that up.

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Sea Breeze

“Rather than provide a rule for measuring time, the term “generation” as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics.” – Watchtower Nov 1, 1995, p.20.

That was the last WT I ever read. I was 32 years old. I just couldn't believe how stupid the WT imagined us to be.

38

Did you ever meet someone born in the 1800’s?

by Fisherman in

i met freddie franz who was born in the 1880’s and many others from the 1880’s.

but as a very small child i remember someone very old aged 106 and that person was born around 1856 which means that he was around people from the 1700’s..

Sea Breeze

Conversed with F .Franz, Br. Friend,

Waton, can you something up? Was Bro. Franz also called Br. Friend? If so, why?

11

Have you driven in a country that drives on the opposite side of the road?

by FondaCox in

jw
friends

did you drive?

if so, how nerve wracking was it for you?

i'd be terrified i'd stop concentrating for a moment and out of habit make a right turn at a red light into oncoming traffic.

Sea Breeze

Yes! Hong Kong picked up that nasty habit from the British. Took a lot of concentration.

38

Did you ever meet someone born in the 1800’s?

by Fisherman in

i met freddie franz who was born in the 1880’s and many others from the 1880’s.

but as a very small child i remember someone very old aged 106 and that person was born around 1856 which means that he was around people from the 1700’s..

Sea Breeze

I remember my Great Grandfather Turner. Would have been late 60's when I was about 7. He would have been born around 1880 or so. He gave me a pocket knife and was very patient in showing me how to open and close it... when it was safe and when it was dangerous. This was in rural Mississippi. I was spellbound as a spunky young lad.

Late at night when I was supposed to be sleeping on the couch, I would crack an eyelid open and watch smoke from his pipe fill the air with sweet tobacco aroma. As he stared into space, I remember being curious about what he was thinking about as he infrequently took a draw. I have a guess now....Probably wondering where he went wrong since by then his daughter (my grandmother) was a JW as was my dad.

He was a horseback Methodist preacher in his younger days. Definitely plan on seeing him in heaven.

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Sea Breeze

yes, there is a lot of time to come until 2075

That's the end of the final Jubilee Waton. (50 year period of the 2000 year period)

The first time around Jesus came early in the jubilee and everything was wrapped up by 75 AD. Same for this time around? We will start seeing things snowball after 2025 I suspect.